[ArchiTecT]

And as for the sexist thing, I KNOW THAT IT IS AN EXPRESSION... let me give him a hard time already :P. If you start taking everything I said literally, that sucks the fun right out of all the double meanings and sarcastic comments that I use.

lol... still not on topic, but what the heck.

I'm sorry if I take your posts too serious. I guess yesterday's mood is to blame for it. And, obviously, I had to stand up for my team-mate... :D

Anyways... what's the topic again?

[sWiTcH]

lol here here for the free expression... i'm sick of the politically correct people individuals... if there are girls here then whoopity.. there could be hermaphrodites and it wouldn't matter. It's the thought that counts. I wanna just counter worldCommunists remark about the brain being able to adapt faster , etc. I back Radivel 100% on his remark about it being a matter of priorities and responsibilities. Think about it ... what level of support are a majority of starcraft players in. Their Parents House! They don't have to worry about rent, bills, etc. their friends are into the same things ... they have school assignments and they get them done or not , but there is no pressing need to be independent because there will be food in the fridge. I can back Radivel on the 'I did a lot of stupid things back then" because I too remember fu*kin' around in school just to come home and play SC till 2 am . I was fortunate to have gotten the grades I did in high school to go on. I'm ranting abit and to each his own destiny, but what I basically want to clairify is that age = experience and though the ability to "adapt" may be more dominent for an adolescent the adult has been in the situation numerous times and doesn't have to "adapt" to a full degree becuase wisdom has already accounted from the lessons learned. It comes down to biology. The prefrontal cortex, which is the executive function decider part of your brain, doesn't fully mature (make all the neurological connections) till about age 25, thus wisdom comes with age AND experience; so who knows.. maybe if us older players have 6 hours a day to play sc, maybe we'll make that come back. Oh wait.. we still would need our mom's to cook for us. NVM
Cheers

This post has been edited by sWiTcH: Feb 8 2008, 06:20 PM

[recklessspite]

Great job Greth, this blog was very well done. I just linked a couple people here after having the "Starcraft is/should be considered a sport" argument. I think you said it better than I can.

[Johnny_Vegas]

I enjoy two main types of competition right now, Starcraft and basketball. My approach to them both is quite the same, I love the competition and improving at each. In basketball's case I get the additional benefit of excercise.

My point is that the two activities are nearly identical in my mind. After a game of SC I see what I could have done to get better. After a game of basketball I analyze my play, and see what I could do to get better. In one case I need to improve my APM and strategic thinking, in the other I need to improve my fitness and skill.

As for using the term "sport", Shakespeare hit the nail on the end when he said "a rose by any other name would smell just as sweet".

What do we gain by officially labeling something a sport anyway? Perhaps there are those that want to improve SC gamers' image, giving it a more noble and less time wasting reputation?

I would even go as far as saying that physical excercise improves a SC player's mental clarity and reflexes, therefore in that sense, if you want to be good, then just sitting on your ass all the time is not the ideal use of your time either. So in that sense, it is "sport like".

Anyway, it doesnt matter what label the game gets. It just matters if people play it and enjoy watching it.

[Super_jew]

great read and i 100% agree with you. I always get pissed off when people say "you've been sitting in front of the computer for 2 hours"

[KnightOfNi]

I've come up recently against intense opposition when I even mention SC being a "sport" to my friends, but I really do like to compare it to the stuff that I play. You always know what you did wrong, you can never play the "perfect" game, and there is always a way to improve. Sounds like a sport to me, and that isn't even saying anything about the practice it requires to be truly competitive.

[DaveatMIZZOU]

I like American Football... just thought I would share.

Good article. Interesting thought, SC is just as much a sport as auto racing, poker, bowling and billiards in my eyes. I also enjoy watching SC more than those "sports" too.

[vinsang]

bravo, i particulary like the part : "don't be shy"

[wrags]

i think most people are still stuck in the mindset that a sport has to take lots of physical strenghth, but like you said shooting doesnt take physical strength and it is a skill.

Words like "skill" and "physical strength" are very subjective. Does it not take a certain type of "skill" to open a bag of chips? Are you not physically moving the muscles in your hand as you type or play? The semantics in the defined term of "sport" or "athleticism" are very biased and unclear.

its hard to get people out of this mindset

While I do agree with the original poster, I also strongly agree with this statement.

As my major delves deeply into philosophy, I feel somewhat obligated to post this for anyone who has not read it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_cave

I was thinking the other day: the average "e-sport" has a lifespan. The cause of this is generally what people refer to as a "skill ceiling". This is not the case with all e-sports, however if we think about this term skill ceiling for a moment, what does it really mean? Some may describe it as the prowess(used from a definition of the term sport) of which is needed to compete "caps off", in a sense, or in other words: once you get good at it you don't get any better, so in turn the game will die out. Now I'm not writing this to bash on other games so I'll spare the list, but we've all played a game at least once in our lifespans that relates to the term. At any rate if we, as humans in our current state of evolution, delve into this idea for a moment, what happens when we reach the physical "plateau" of "athleticism", as it is defined? What happens when every player on an American football or soccer team has the exact same physical abilities as each other? Being that certain "sports" are in their own definition does that change the definition itself? Although I would really like to see Starcraft at the Olympics one day, realistically it won't happen anytime soon. However, I do believe that Starcraft is a very large step in regulated competition as we perceive it.

This post has been edited by wrags: Apr 26 2008, 07:01 PM

[Race]

instead of the olympics sc could be something bigger maybe

[epicurus]

I see how both of you argue your points. Greth, you seem to wish Starcraft to be deemed a sport. p4NDemik, you say it is something greater and more unique. We could argue until both of you are blue in the face about this.

Let me preface this by saying; I have a self-proclaimed, self-awarded Bachelor of Science in SportsCenter. I live for ESPN.

Gentleman, I offer you this:

All of us here seem to hold Starcraft in high regards and treasure what it is and has become, almost as something sacred. Something we would all hate to see be ruined.

Sports are tainted. Athletes use steroids and other performance enhancing drugs. There is gambling, racketeering, throwing of games. Cheating scandals. Referees involved in gambling rings. The lists go on and on. The team sports are also corrupted. Salary caps have only minimized the way a team can stack themselves. Look at the New York Yankees. Some of the greatest names in sports have been accused of some sort of scandal. Even the holy grail of all sports, the Olympics, was rocked by cheating scandals. Running, Football, Baseball, Basketball, Cycling, Horse Racing.. You name a sport, and there has been some accusation of some kind of illegal activity. Even on the amateur, non-professional platform of college, and worse yet, high school, there are accusations of performance enhancing drug usage. Need I say more.

Starcraft, at the highest levels, is clean so far as we know. Games are closely monitored and as Greth said, there is no true way to gain an advantage that clearly puts you a cut above the rest.

Now I ask you, after seeing a side-by-side, albeit brief, comparison of the two, Do you really want Starcraft to be associated with sports? Do we want the one thing that has remained scandal free in our lives to be associated with a body of entertainment that has gone over the edge of recovery in terms of fairness? When 15 through 18 year olds are pumping needles into their rear ends, something has gone terribly wrong. Do we want Starcraft to be associated with this dirty image?

I say no. I say we push for it to be greater than sports. All sports are to a degree, a niche following. Not everyone follows baseball, or football. I'm not saying everyone will follow Starcraft, but we can come damn close.

Gentleman, we can start a revolution....

Wrong.

There are pills around today that can help you with consentration and practicing. Also, in the future direct mind connection with the enternet and computing power from nano bots in your brain could make a huge difference.

[KnightOfNi]

Wrong.

There are pills around today that can help you with consentration and practicing. Also, in the future direct mind connection with the enternet and computing power from nano bots in your brain could make a huge difference.

Way to be a total asshole epicurus.

[p4NDemik]

i was hoping he was trying to be sarcastic ...

[Greth]

I think you're going to deep into what baggage comes with the term 'sport'. When something is called a sport, that doesn't mean that in order for it to be a sport there have to be a load of drug ridden junkies participating in it.
Drugs are a facet of competition in today's sports. but that doesn't mean every competitive sport has to have it as a requirement.

What I want is for Starcraft to be set on the same standard as those other sports. To not be belittled.
Also, I think it's naive to consider SC in its current stage to be 'clean'. I'll leave it up to you to find out what that means.

[epicurus]

Starcraft: The Sport


I’m a white male in my early twenties. I’m tall, skinny and have long dark brown hair and some rampant facial hair. When I say white, I mean chalk.

Who wants to see a picture of Greth?


P.S.

Sports don't require drugs, I was just saying it is possible to use rugs in starcraft. A lot of kids use drugs to study for test in college and I can definitly see people using them for computer games.

This post has been edited by epicurus: Apr 27 2008, 05:31 PM

[KnightOfNi]

Sports don't require drugs, I was just saying it is possible to use rugs in starcraft. A lot of kids use drugs to study for test in college and I can definitly see people using them for computer games.

If by drugs you mean caffeine pills then yes college students do use drugs to study for tests. Otherwise I have no idea what you are talking about.

[wrags]

Sports don't require drugs, I was just saying it is possible to use rugs in starcraft. A lot of kids use drugs to study for test in college and I can definitly see people using them for computer games.

That's a very common misconception, although, if you looked hard enough, you probably could find something that would 'up your game', so to speak. But if you're referring to "concentration pills", things like adderall, they're only supposed to "work" if you are suffering from the affliction of which they're prescribed for(theoretically).

This post has been edited by wrags: Apr 27 2008, 08:25 PM

[Spaceball]

If by drugs you mean caffeine pills then yes college students do use drugs to study for tests. Otherwise I have no idea what you are talking about.

Ignorance is bliss... they sure as hell aren't caffeine pills.

EDIT: Here you go, for the uninformed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adderall

Performance-enhancing use

Due to side effects including appetite suppression and weight loss, Adderall has also been used as an off-label drug for obesity.[6]

Professional poker player Paul Phillips claimed that the use of Adderall and other medications prescribed to him for ADHD treatment made him a much better player and helped him earn more than $2.3 million in poker. The drugs improved his concentration during high-stakes tournaments, he said, allowing him to better track all the action at his table.[7]

Adderall is also reportedly widely used as a "study drug" at most major American universities. Adderall is reported to help focus energy and concentration to a much higher level than normal. It is an amphetamine and works similarly to cocaine, enabling the user to focus and stay awake.[8] Stories of students writing papers for an unusual number of continuous hours [(e.g., 14 hours], or cramming all night for an exam with no loss of energy or concentrations are common. However, the user reportedly can suffer from drastic side effects the following day if Adderall was used to avoid a normal sleep pattern. These reported side effects include temporary loss of vision, sleeping over 14 hours, muscle spasms, vomiting, mental confusion, etc. William Frankenberger, psychology professor at University of Wisconsin at Eau Claire, led at a study at the university in 2004 that reported 14% of the campus had abused some form of ADHD drug, including Adderall.[9]. College campuses known to be highly competitive or have a high rate of binge drinking had up to 25% of students who misused an ADHD medication within one year, a survey of students at 119 colleges across the country concluded.[10]. Other forms of ADHD medication used as a performance enhancing drug include Ritalin, Concerta, and Dexedrine.[11].

I know a lot of people who use it for study binges... if you have a legit prescription you can make a ton of money on college campus. People love this stuff, although I seriously doubt it has any legit applications to Starcraft.

This post has been edited by Spaceball: Apr 27 2008, 08:33 PM

[Greth]

Who wants to see a picture of Greth?

I don't know what this has to do with anything, but I did omit the fact of my ravish good looks and Adonis like physique.

[p4NDemik]

epicurious:

To the use of 'performance enhancers' in SC, as far as I'm concerned, if you're taking anything, then you are only hurting your performance. For whatever effect that a drug could have that helps you mentally, there's always going to be 10 more side-effects that hurt you more (as that quote from wikipedia seems to indicate).

There isn't any magic drug that can improve your mental acuity in the same way steroids make you stronger. Just my opinion. I know a few people that snort adderall and think that it helps them, but in my opinion they're idiots for actually believing that snorting something can help them in any way. Most the people I know who have done it have put off a project/studying in favor of smoking weed all the time, and then when it comes down to crunch time they turn to another substance that's supposed to "help" them. I won't go any farther into that matter.