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Jaidelm
I'm going to skip the normal rant, and just ask you to watch this and please tell me where I went wrong. It looked like I was dominating up until I got steamrolled.

Click to view attachment

And don't tell me "he had a bigger economy". The vast majority of this game was 2 base P on 3 base Z, at one point I had double his bases. The extra two expansions at the end cost more resources than they had yet to gain, so really he was handicapped and still managed to murder me.
538
QUOTE (Jaidelm @ Oct 28 2009, 07:36 AM) *
I'm going to skip the normal rant, and just ask you to watch this and please tell me where I went wrong. It looked like I was dominating up until I got steamrolled.

Click to view attachment

And don't tell me "he had a bigger economy". The vast majority of this game was 2 base P on 3 base Z, at one point I had double his bases. The extra two expansions at the end cost more resources than they had yet to gain, so really he was handicapped and still managed to murder me.


Erm... are you sure you attached the right replay? If you did, did you actually watch the replay at all? This game was NEVER 2 base P vs 3 base Z, you basically took the 3rd bases at the same time. (since all you did with the fast spire was to kill his sairs, but you didnt push with hydras, let alone contain with lurkers, he just walked out and took a 3rd on the left with cannons.) The shortly after he even killed your 3rd, then it was 3P vs 2Z bases, then you took an other base, but the time you get up your 4th, he was already at almost 5.

I'm sorry, but:
He had a bigger economy.

And he was always around 40 supply ahead of you, and you rarely bothered his troops, he could reach critical mass, and his templars were full of energy. But all in all, it was just a straight economic win. Even if he microed his battles worse then you (which he didnt), you didnt have a chance on the long run with the given number of bases, at any point in the game.
Nate
I'm just a D/D- Terran, and have know expertise whatsoever in PvZ, so take my words lightly:

It seemed to me that Protoss was ahead the entire game. I also agree that you were economically behind (he started his third before you) but here's what I think unrelated to economy:

I think that you should have used the early lings to attack,ignoring the probe, instead of chasing the probe around for a while (or kill the probe quickly with better micro?). Maybe run by his cannon and kill probes?

I don't know how many overlord kills his corsairs should have gotten, but to me, it looked like a lot. I dunno - I have an emotional connection to each of my units <3. (except vultures, those cocky bastards)

Another thing about the overlords - I think you should have had them spread around the map. Then, you could have scouted him trying to take his third.

You had some hydras outside of his base, which he easily took out. But you had a force nearby - why not attack together, or retreat and regroup?

I thought it was over when he killed your third, but then you dropped his main with hydras. I think you could have wiped out his main if the drop was better coordinated (group the hydras together). Yeah you were being under a MASSIVE attack at your main, but still...

That's a D- Terran player's 2 cents. I feel we're very close in strength though; we should play together sometime!
Jaidelm
Having watched it again when i'm not pissed off, I concede I was wrong.

I'm just growing very, very frustrated with my zvp. I'm aware that I simply don't have a high amount of actions, and my macro especially is severely lacking, but I still win a sizeable chunk of my zvz and (increasingly) zvt's. In those match ups I can at least understand what I need to do and occasionally get it done. I mean, i'm only D rank, I'm not exactly playing against Deep Blue here.

But I lose so, so much in zvp. It HAS to be a fundamental issue. These guys don't have a higher apm than me, and I can only assume from their ranks (D) that their multitasking is comparable to mine. Yet I consistently get steamrolled.

What I could really use is a protoss to practice with or a zerg who has faced a similar issue.

And I apologize if I'm pissing anyone off with my repeated posts asking for help. I know I post a lot of them, and I can imagine it gets tiring seeing me suck and complain over and over; I just don't really have any other resource for advice- teamliquid intimidates me- so I go here for everything. If I'm overdoing it let me know and I'll try and put a lid on it.
Ero_Sennin
Go read up on some zerg strategies, mainly, focus on why they do what they do.

For example, if you overpool, what is it after that? 11 gas, hatchery at 11, another hatchery at 15? Why would zerg do that? Because they know the protoss is FE and won't mount any serious offensive. So, after producing 2-6 zerglings to kill their probe (I assume at your level you could probably get away with 2-4 and kill it rather quickly [because they probably have shitty probe micro]), you pump drones for quite awhile, why? Because you have the advantage to do so.

If you scout early, you see them pumping sairs and their core is spinning, more than likely they're going for a serious sair/dt attack or a sair/reaver attack, thus act accordingly to what you see. If you see they only have 1 cannon up, mass zergling and take 'em out.
MageKirby
Omg wtf? Ero put a normal reply?!?!?!!

And yea, if its your apm and mechanics that's your problem....just work on it more? Or get less angry from losing?
Ero_Sennin
All of my replies are normal.

I know not of what you are implying.
Jaidelm
I just wanted to note that while I still don't understand everything, especially in the zvp department, I did actually reach the D+ rank for the first time just now, and wanted to thank everyone for their help. It probably seems like a small accomplishment to most of you better players, but I'm really excited biggrin.gif
Ero_Sennin
That's cool, though, congrats. I remember when I first hit D+... I was 10. Then I actually grew a pair.

;D kidding
Jaidelm
Lol, and I just lost it to a proxy-barracks bunker rush on desti. It's not easy bein' cheesy.
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